Louise Shelley, professor at George Mason University, author of many books on organized crime.

Question: Do you see any special qualities of Russian organized crime that distinguish them from other criminal groups around the world?

Shelley: I call them their model of business the “natural resource business”. What this means is that Russians are not traders. When Chinese run organized crime, they do everything to run an integrated business from start to finish in order to maximize profits and to plow back their profits for economic development. Russian organized crime has a short term perspective as if they were selling off natural resources. So the illicit economy resembles the licit economy. For example, when they sell off women, there’s no concern about where the next generation of Russians is coming from. They don’t control the traffic of women from start to finish to, say, the markets in London or New York where the women command the highest prices, like the Chinese do. They sell the women off at the first opportunity. I call this the “natural resource model” business. It applies to everything. They sell off commodities and they don’t process them.

Question: In Russian pop culture, the idea that the Russian mafia is very patriotic and helps the FSB deal with state enemies is very popular.

Shelley: This is how organized crime survives around the world. The Japanese Yakuza helped their government before World War II and the mafia in the United States guarded the ports during the Second World War. This is how organized crime survives, by trying to be useful to people who might otherwise crack down on them.

Question: During Vladimir Putin’s presidency, a crackdown on organized crime did appear to result in a decreasing crime rate. At the same time, there seemed to be an increase in organized crime’s international activity. Is it possible that one event has led to the other?

Shelley: No. Russian organized crime globalized very rapidly and early on. That was its great comparative advantage compared to other organized crime. It was extremely good at seizing opportunities and moving across borders and moving money. Its international expansion predated the demise of the former Soviet Union, therefore they were poised for growth when the USSR collapsed. The criminals were ahead of the curve. I first spotted criminals from the former Soviet Union when I ate at a restaurant they controlled in Brighton Beach in 1981. This is long before Putin. What happens when a government cracks down on organized crime in their home country, then the criminals strengthen their overseas bases. But Russian organized crime has not now globalized because there’s been a domestic crackdown on them.

Question: How would you respond to claims by the Western media that Russian organized crime poses a danger within the United States?

Shelley: I think compared to the damage from MS-13, which is an El Salvadoran group, and other gangs, they are certainly much less violent. What they’re capable of doing on the economic side, we don’t always know but it is potentially more serious. Sometimes you understand their impact only over the long term. In terms of the number of people and the level of violence, they’re certainly not as threatening as some other groups.

Question: Why is Russian organized crime using, for example, the Italian Mafia or Japanese Yakuza’s business models?

Shelley: I don’t think it does. Maybe Russian organized crime is closer to Japanese organized crime, but it’s certainly not close to Italian organized crime. Superficially, there may be some points of similarity, in terms of dress or manner of speaking, but Russian speaking organized crime is very different. Italian organized crime does not invest in education and it’s not been as fast to globalize as Russian organized crime. I wouldn’t say that the Italian mafia is a model for Russian organized crime. Japanese organized crime, which has penetrated into the banking system and the financial community, is much more of a model for Russian organized crime because it’s much more involved in finance and the highest levels of the legitimate economy.

Question: It seems that gangs usually work in areas composed primarily of the ethnic group to which they belong, as demonstrated, for example, by Chinese triads working in Chinatown. Is that true with Russian organized crime?

Shelley: It’s true but it’s not always true. You often have organized crime groups working together, especially in large areas. I wouldn’t overgeneralize. The most unusual groups may cooperate in a single area. For example, in London you can have Turkish groups working with Jamaican groups to distribute drugs, if you can believe such a thing. Therefore, I wouldn’t make such a generalization.

Question: There’s a history of gang leaders becoming politicians in Russia.

Shelley: This is more common in Russia than elsewhere, that people with criminal backgrounds go into politics. You just have to look at the situation of “Winnie the Pooh” [Vladimir Nikolayev], who was mayor of Vladivostok until recently, to see this. There are many people who have gone into government in Russia because Russia gives immunity from prosecution to people who join legislatures and win elected office. This is not healthy. Russia’s broad immunity to elected public officials is a primary reason that those who fear prosecution have run for public office.

Question: Has Russian organized crime, in recent years, become more powerful or less powerful?

Shelley: It’s transformed, so it’s still a powerful force in the economy. Many oligarchs are linked or beholden to organized crime, which sometimes has influence over even the largest corporations. It’s less visible than it was before but it hasn’t disappeared at all.

Question: What is your forecast for the future of Russian organized crime?

Shelley: I think it’s going to continue to be a significant part of the Russian economy. Because what it takes to combat organized crime successfully is open and critical media, an involved civil society, rule of law, and a functioning and respected judicial system, so that people feel that they can get their conflicts fairly resolved. Russian doesn’t have a fair and open media right now, it doesn’t have an active civil society and it doesn’t have an independent judiciary. Until it has these, it will not be able to effectively combat organized crime.

Question: Does Russian organized crime pose a danger to the Russian state and society?

Shelley: It does. Look at the harm from the drug problem. Part of the reason that the drug problem has grown so rapidly in Russia in the last few years is the presence of organized crime. Russia now has one of the world’s worst per capita drug problems and it’s come out of nowhere. Part of it is proximity to Afghanistan but there have to be people who move the drugs and they are members of the crime networks. The drug trade directly affects the health of Russia and Russians. The trafficking of women deprives Russia of the next generation, because where are the women who are going to give birth to Russian children? It helps contribute to the spread of AIDS that’s undermining the health of the country. Russian organized crime also has enormous economic influence that has a negative effect on the Russian state.

Question: Russians claim that gangs are comprised mostly of ethnic groups other than Russians and anything said to the contrary is a distortion perpetrated by Western media. Is there any truth to this?

Shelley: There are ethnic criminals but there are Russian criminals too. That’s true in many places in the world. But many of the facilitators and the people who are in the law enforcement system who work with the criminals are Russians. The criminal mayor of Vladivostok was a Russian. Yes, there’s the presence of ethnic groups but there is also the presence of Russians in organized crime.

Question: What message would you give to Russians regarding organized crime?

Shelley: I think it’s very important for Russians to be aware of this problem, to try and put pressure on the government to do something about the drug problems and the human trafficking. There are people doing this but there needs to be much more. The government needs to allow people to form civil society and address these issues.